Episode 8: Extracting the Truth with Kew Wagner
Solvents, CO2 extracts, Live Resin, Broad Spectrum... these are just some of the many terms used to describe the concentrated cannabis extracts we edibles makers use in our products.
But Never Fear, because Kew Wagner is here to explain the differences between extraction methods and why we use her prime CO2 extract cannabis to make the finest, healthiest edibles on the market.
Take it away, Kew!
Listen, laugh, and learn... enjoy the Bad Mommy Experience.
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Lalita Khosla: Welcome back to The Bad Mommy Experience your guide to the best people products and practices in cannabis 2.0. I'm Lalita Khosla, founder of Bad Mommy Edibles, a microdose chocolate brand for moms and those who love moms based in California, and coming soon to a dispensary or delivery service near you. So you might be wondering what is cannabis 2.0 It's today's elevated cannabis experience. You might remember the days of cannabis 1.0 When this beautiful plant was stigmatized and demonized and relegated to the shadows, illegal to purchase and scary to imbibe because you never really knew what you were getting. Fast forward to today, where you could shop for cannabis in a beautiful dispensary, or scroll through an elegant website and order microdose lab tested products right to your door. That's The Bad Mommy Experience. We'd like to introduce you to
even though I am Indian and I look like I play a doctor on TV, I really not a doctor. So any information you learn about cannabis in this podcast is definitely here to help you. But please do discuss any new program with your medical professional. So let's get started with today's guest. Hey, listeners, welcome back to The Bad Mommy Experience podcast. And today I am so excited to have Q Wagner on board. She is so fabulous and such an expert in so many things regarding cannabis, but especially the science behind extraction, because if you have as a consumer dabbled at all into going into a dispensary or on a website, it is very confusing out there. Karen, can you help us clear up some confusion?
Kew Wagner: Oh, sure. Thank you so much for the kind introduction. Bad Mommy. I would love to help people really understand what they are purchasing in the dispensary. I'll tell you how I got started in this business. I used to be in the natural products industry, where we had intense quality control and regulation around nutritional supplements things you put into your mouth. And so when I started my business in cannabis was really, really important to me. And let me tell you, I'm an early adopter. I started the business, the extraction business in 2015. So that was way way early in the in the world of edibles and oil extraction. So when I started my oil extraction business, it was really important to me to have super high quality oil and the very finest oil that one could ingest.
Lalita Khosla: Now in case you're wondering, what is the Bad Mommy podcast? It's basically a series of freewheeling conversations with people I've met in the cannabis world. And that includes both customers and creators. It's just honestly such a great self selecting group of people that I had to share. I think maybe we even need to start with just our use of the word oil because we're just such industry insiders that we just Bandy that around but I think to a new consumer, we should really explain what a cannabis oil is, right?
Kew Wagner: Absolutely. So cannabis oil is an extraction from the cannabis flour. And generally it is done from the trim or the less expensive part of the cannabis flower. So when you see something that says whole flower that is potentially a more potent, more more has more therapeutic value because it's being extracted from the entire flour. So what do we mean by extraction? Well, extraction is done in a bunch of different ways. It is done with a solvent, or a in the case of ethanol alcohol, that's a solvent that is generally used to make tinctures oils can also be used as an extraction method. To make highly concentrated extractions, you use co2. And then in these other cases, you use butane for the high volume extractions that tend to go into distillate. So you know there's lots of different extraction methods as many different types of to make many different types of oil if you will.
Lalita Khosla: The oil so that our list is no no, the oil is not like, you know, some olive oil or some grapeseed oil. Cooking oil. It is more like a resin. Right?
Kew Wagner: Right. Right. Right. It's it's Tapi it's Taffy like yeah, it's it's a it's, it's super concentrated. It's truly like a sap, right think of it as a sap of a tree like maples, maple sap before it becomes maple syrup. Right? So that's kind of a good example.
Lalita Khosla: Right? It's a really good salt because you get the syrup by heating it. Right.
Kew Wagner: Correct. So, you know, then let's talk about the different buzzwords that are being used in the cannabis industry, which are, you know, I mean, everyone's trying to sell their product, right? So they're, they're coming up with well, what's what's important to the consumer? Well, the consumer wants to know that they're getting the most most efficacious product possible. And that efficacious product would have the most cannabinoids possible broad spectrum cannabinoids, as we like to say, Now, what are the cannabinoids? Those are everything. That's the whole plant material, right? THC and CBD are only a small part of the different cannabinoids there. CBN CBG, the list goes THCA The list goes on and on. There's still
Lalita Khosla: discovering new ones, right? Because the plant is finally being researched the way it should have been all along.
Kew Wagner: Exactly right. So we have a huge list of cannabinoids, and those are all what we call full spectrum or broad spectrum cannabinoids. Now sadly, sadly, because people have identified that that's an important buzzword for the consumer. Broad Spectrum full spectrum, they have tack that on to products that are just with distillate which is impossible. Just to lit is the process where you take oil. And then you further refine it to its to its core constituency, which in most cases is the THC. Now when you when you when you refine it to that ultimate THC, that's all basically all you have, there's nothing else in there, because you've now you've you've heated it up, you've mixed it with alcohol, you've heated it up some more, you've made it into something almost completely different from what it started out to be. And that is distillate it maintains a very consistent THC property. So it becomes quote unquote cheaper to use distillate because you do the formula once and you've got once and done, you know, you don't have to reformulate each time so many manufacturers just say alright, distillate is I'm using this lit and I'm slapping on that label broad spectrum full spectrum, because I know people will like to hear that, but they it is not. So any. So a consumer really needs to go into a dispensary and ask, is this made with distillate? And if it is say, No, I don't want it
Lalita Khosla: well, but how often is it? Is it even clear whether it's made with distillate or not? You have to drill down probably into the what we call in the business, the certificate of analysis, which now that we're in the regulated landscape, every product has to be tested and have a certificate of analysis issued by a licensed lab. And that does that even tell you if it's distillate or not?
Kew Wagner: Pretty much because you'll see there that so thank you. Yes, that's an excellent way of a consumer and consumers are entitled and encouraged to ask a dispensary for that documentation. Every dispensary on every product has to maintain a file with that documentation
Lalita Khosla: and a lot of more reputable brands, you can actually go to the website and click on the product and it will take you to the CRA. So that's also terrific.
Kew Wagner: Exactly. But sadly, I would say a lot of reputable brands are under this mistaken notion that they can slap on the label broad spectrum of full spectrum on distillate products. So the way you could tell if it's made from distillate is if all of the different cannabinoids are in a very, very low amount within the product. So it's mostly THC or mostly seafood and you don't see anything else right? You see or very you see some of the other cannabinoids, but in just Trace trace trace amounts. So that's how you could tell if it was distilled or not. Now that is
Unknown Speaker: a good cheat sheet key. Very good.
Lalita Khosla: Like that. Because otherwise despite this over regulation, no government entity is really going into check whether it's broad spectrum or distillate or full spectrum
Kew Wagner: not at this time. So again, we're in the the early days of this kind of oversight. And just as I explained to the natural products industry, we went through that process It took quite a long, many years to get there. But now that's why you have that label that says, the FDA doesn't evaluate these these claims, right? So we're, we're, we're in this early stages of this. And I do believe that soon, you know, we will, we will be in the next year or two, we will have laws that say, Hey, you can't label it this or you can't label it that you can't use this term. You can't use that term. Certainly, we're starting to see that happen in the hemp CBD market, the FDA is cracking down.
Lalita Khosla: And just so consumers know, distillate is especially popular in the CBD space correctly. Absolutely. And that's a huge, I mean, basically, right? It's, it's the difference, I think the best analysis is, you know, do you want to take a capsule of vitamin C? Or do you want to eat the orange, right. And that's why the orange gives you the full spectrum of the plant benefits of an orange, vitamin C gives you the vitamin C, right. So I think that is the best way to explain the difference between full spectrum and distillate and whether you want what is called the entourage effect, right, which is the entourage effect of the whole orange, helping your body out versus the singular effect of vitamin C. And no one's saying that Vitamin C is bad. But yeah, nobody really asks, when you go and you buy vitamin C capsules, how are these made? How are these processed? How are these extracted? And these are all really good questions to ask as a consumer, you know, because we're all sick of these toxic products being hidden in our foods and supplements. Absolutely. And in fact, today, I even read how there's a company that's been raiding big companies, and it's called Mind your store, and how all these huge companies consistently fail. They're very clear benchmarks of not using toxic products like failure rates, and BPA. And there's another one that they all use. And these are companies like Subway, and Starbucks, and, you know, Apple, although Apple and target are now doing really well, and Safar is doing really well. And Ulta actually is doing really well. But it's very interesting to see how, you know, these common household names are still not honoring the health of the consumer, right, despite, you know, claims to the contrary.
Kew Wagner: Right. And and this is why Bad Mommy is to exist, right? Yes, Bad Mommy is here to us. And I can't thank you enough for using our oil in particular, and for making sure that you have broad spectrum full spectrum oil that is not distillate that is that is healthy, and has the full value of the plant in your edibles. I know that has always been a great concern of yours. And you know, I just I'm very thankful that you think about it, and are very true to making sure the consumer has the very best product they can possibly have.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, and we do that we do that with all our products. You know, our chocolate ingredients are really pure as well and Raka, my chocolate manufacturer, they don't even use soy Levison, which is you know, a soy based product. And if you look at a lot of chocolate, and even, you know, high end brands, they only use it to lubricate their chocolate temporary machines. And it is a small amount, you know, but hey, if you want to do a soy free product, you don't use that, you know, and rocket doesn't use it. And as a consequence, I don't use it. And I feel really proud of that, you know, because you got to plant your flag in the ground somewhere. Exactly. You know, and are you going to be pure or not? And are you going to offer the consumer a positive experience? I mean, Karen of yes, a full disclosure Bad Mommy uses Karen's oils, and they're really awesome. And they deliver a beautiful effect. And I think that's another thing that's really getting lost in the discussion of the therapeutic benefits of cannabis. Yes, it helps with depression. Yes, it's anti inflammatory. I mean, yes, it has all of these benefits, but every product is going to differ, right? And what I found from using your oils consistently, they made me feel really good. You know, whereas I'll go to another chocolate, of course, I'm testing my competitors chocolate all the time. And I feel kind of blessed. You know, I'm like, this is kind of a meth experience. The chocolate tastes met, and the effect is met. So why do I don't want this huge bloody chocolate bar in my fridge?
Kew Wagner: I'm gonna give it away. Well, well, I have had the exact same experience where I have, I have had some of, you know, competitors, products.
Lalita Khosla: And and the good ones. I'm not talking about, you know, the $3 bin. No, no, no. I'm talking about the you know, 20 $30 bars, right. And it's just like, meth and yeah, that's what I want that
Kew Wagner: I still have some sitting I've had some for a year sitting by my bedside because it's just like, I don't wake up feeling good. I wake up feeling you know, kinda like on over.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, I wouldn't say that there's a lasting effect. I just say I mean for me primarily, you know, I'm lucky I'm very healthy. And so for me my primary I primer merrily turned cannabis for decompression, right? And so if I'm going to decompress, I want to be happy. I don't know the math
Kew Wagner: One of the problems that I have seen in the industry is prior to 2018, where we had legalized cannabis that was finally regulated, and we voted for it earlier. But then it finally became to fruition in 2018. butane hash oil or oil that was derived from the process of using butane to create the oil was completely illegal. And all we had as an option of extraction was something with co2 extraction, or ethanol extraction. And both of those were excellent, excellent ways in which to extract oil from the raw material from the cannabis flour to make it into oil that would go into edibles or vape pens or things like that. Okay, so what happened in 2018 was, they legalize the use of butane to create oil. Now, butane is a petroleum derived product. Butane extraction would never ever be allowed in the natural products industry. In order to make an extraction. Let's say for instance, your supplement contained rosemary oil, it would not be allowed to have the rosemary oil extracted from butane. And the reason for this is that no matter how much quote unquote purge, which is, you know, getting rid of the butane after the extraction process, no matter how much you purge the oil, it's always going to have a little bit of butane leftover in it. And if you are ingesting that butane, you are ingesting a toxic byproduct that who who wants that in their in their system, nobody wants pesticides in their system, and they shouldn't want butane in their system either. So when you make oil into distillate and this is this is a really, really big crux of it. Okay, most edible products are made with something called distillate. So when you take raw oil and then you make it into distillate first of all, you're taking out all of the different cannabinoids, all of the beneficial properties of the oil, and you're just distilling it down to just the core property THC. That distillate is commonly used in edibles, that distillate is commonly made from butane. Now why is it made from butane? Why don't people use co2 oil? Well, you know, it's it's, it's a money thing, right? butane, oil extraction is much more is much quicker, right? It allows the facility to process, let's just use a like an example 1000 pounds of trim, they can process in an hour, whereas it would take a co2 facility 1000 pounds of trim maybe a few days. So it's faster, which means it's cheaper. It's done to scale, it can be done in huge and you know, in extraction facilities, all of that makes it much more quote unquote, cost effective. But how how cost effective is it if it actually interferes with your health is not very cost effective?
Lalita Khosla: Right. And I think this is part of the problem. When you go into dispensary, you really don't know. And you don't know what you don't know. Right? So that that's really let's let's look backtrack to that, as a consumer entering the cannabis and the CBD space. You've heard a lot about the therapeutic properties, you want to try it out, but you have no idea what you're asking for. Right. And now I am happy when I go into dispensaries, I do see terms like full spectrum, I do see terms like solventless extraction, I do see terms like whole flower. So you know these terms are now coming out and being put on packaging. And that is great. But at the same time, nobody is really explaining them. And once again, you were really dependent on the bud tender or the customer service rep at the delivery on the you know, the delivery website to explain these things to you. And there's no standardized training in the cannabis industry. Right. So the explanation you can get can kind of be unfortunately all over them are exactly
Kew Wagner: correct. Bad Mommy. I mean, it is bad out there. Absolutely. The consumer, really,
Lalita Khosla: it's still the right and even with all this over regulation, it's still the Wild West. Now let me back up to one thing you'd said that in the natural products industry. You know, it's quite strict, but when you buy a supplement, it says These claims have not been evaluated by the FDA. So is it just the claims that are somewhat unregulated, but the manufacturing is you're
Kew Wagner: exactly correct. So the claims that they make, which have to be what we call structure function, okay are claims that what a product will help you with, right? It's therapeutic value. Now, you cannot in the natural products industry, you cannot make claims, unless they have, they have third party independent clinical trials that validate those claims. And that happens very, very rarely, there are a few products out there that do have those, and therefore they are able to make those therapeutic claims. Now, you'll see that that's the case now with so the FDA then has not evaluated that the product is indeed therapeutic. That's what they're saying with that on the back of the label. But the regulations are such that you would always be able to understand that the product is clean and pure and and value for your health, right, it has a value for your health. So that is important. That all came about. It's kind of interesting, because it came about in 1996 is called the Shay Act, which then allowed because prior to that, someone could kind of parallels a little bit to the cannabis industry, right. Prior to that act being a federal act, a supplement company could literally make the product in their bathtub, put it in capsules in their kitchen and put it on the shelf. And there was no regulation, there were no good manufacturing practices called GMPs. There were there was nothing that that said this product is is is manufactured in a safe environment. And all that changed in 1996 1997. Right in there, you know, and then companies had a few years to come up to those standards. And if they couldn't come up to those standards, that the regulations indicated they had to go out of business. So that was a really big step in making sure that you had safe and valid therapeutic products in the natural products industry. So now we've kind of have that in cannabis, it mirrors a little bit in that the regulations came about in 2018. And and made things much more safe and regulated. But a little bit over the regulated as you say.
Lalita Khosla: So what is cannabis 2.0? It's this whole new wide, wonderful world of regulated lab tested products. And we're here at Bad Mommy to guide you to the best people products and practices in this marketplace.
How did you get into this whole world? Because it is a very scientific world of plot extraction. Right? I mean, you mentioned you had this background and natural products. But then how did you segue into cannabis extraction?
Kew Wagner: Well, it was it was clear to me, I started the very first branded collective in, in Humboldt County in 2010. The very first time somebody put product and flowers in a in a jar with a label. And we thought we were going to have legalization back then, but it didn't happen. So kind of things kind of died down a little bit. And as I say, in 2014 2015, it was clear that extraction and oil was going to be quote, unquote, the next big thing. So I definitely segwayed into that, can I tell you that I know everything there is about the machinery and how it works? No, but what I did do is I purchased the most up to date, pharmaceutical grade machinery, the machinery that's used in the natural products industry to do extraction. I did purchase that type of machinery in order to create the very, very best that I could create. And that was co2 Is that what co2 extraction that was is done by waters, waters, machinery that is the
Lalita Khosla: why don't you walk us through that process. Right. So
Kew Wagner: the waters machinery is again, it's pharmaceutical grade. It's been used by every large major company, pharmaceutical company around the world. It's billions of dollar company. It's located in in Massachusetts. So that was a first choice. Now it is a high pressure, they call it supercritical and that's one of the names of one of my brands too is called supercritical. It's supercritical co2 extraction. So you put the the, the flour in these big giant cylinders, and then you bring it up to a pressure with the co2 gas. bearing down on it in These pressurized containers and that's what then extracts the oil. And it literally it's like turning on a tap of the, you know, like a maple syrup tap and you turn on the tap at the end of, you know, six or seven hours. However, the extraction takes a turn on the tap and you extract this oil into a big container. So that's yeah, that's
Lalita Khosla: how does that extraction preserve the full spectrum quality of the plant? Well,
Kew Wagner: again, you are you at that point, you are just, you are extracting old cannabinoids, and all the fats and waxes, okay, as part of the process. Now, when you're going to the next part of the process, which is to make distillate what you're doing there is taking out all the fats and waxes, well, those fats and waxes have all sorts of beautiful properties in them again, so when you're making distillate you're taking all that out and you're just left with the core constituency, the THC or the CBD, distillate instead of all of those beautiful cannabinoids that were part of the fat fat and waxes and I will say that you always have been making your your edibles with that what we would call raw oil as opposed to highly processed oil.
Lalita Khosla: So you you turn on the tap, you get this oil and then is that the end of the process?
Kew Wagner: Well in my business it is I make what's called crude oil or raw oil. And then some companies like yourself prefer to use that kind of oil and other companies, you know, take the oil and like take it further into the distillate process, which requires another big set of equipment and, you know, again, it's think of it as like making this is a very good analogy. It's like the difference between making wine or Fine. Fine alcohol even brewing an alcohol and making Everclear right so it goes to all these other processes it to make to make distillate but so I sell to either companies like yourself that uses the raw full spectrum broad spectrum, co2 oil without any extraneous chemicals in it, like like butane, and I sell it to people then who also then take it to the next step and make it into a distillate.
Lalita Khosla: So So what are some buzzwords so consumers in addition to seeking out the CLA to see what they're really getting to see if there are many different cannabinoids represented in the lab results? Even if they're extremely low? They should be asking for full spectrum. Could you actually do a little aside a little tangent on broad spectrum? Because I don't even fully understand the difference between full spectrum and broad spectrum, the difference
Kew Wagner: between full spectrum and broad spectrum? I don't believe there's a difference. It's just a word difference. Okay. It is. To me, it's the same exact thing now that I, you know, I may have to research that more Bad Mommy, I'm not sure. You know, I'm like, you know, it
Lalita Khosla: was an A shout out. There's a lovely CBD store that Khalifa has opened in San Carlos. It's actually been there a little over a year. And I was talking to the salesperson there. And she said the difference is that broad spectrum has the THC completely extracted. So even though that's a hemp derived store, and you can only have point 3% THC in any hemp plant, broad spectrum goes further to even fully extract that point. 3% or less out. That was news to me. I hadn't heard of that.
Kew Wagner: That's, you know, it's kind of news to me. I mean, to me, the two terms are pretty much synonymous. But you know, I can't I'm perhaps I'm missing something, perhaps so I'll have to you,
Lalita Khosla: right. Well, you know, this industry is constantly tried Exactly. But okay, as long as Yeah, as long as a consumer has full spectrum or broad spectrum and can verify that with the lab results, then they should be in good shape, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. But then would they also want to look for this other word I've seen which is solventless. What qualifies as solventless. In addition to co2, co2 is as natural as you can get, right? Because it's a gas. It's a naturally occurring gas,
Kew Wagner: when you go to a bar and they have a soda gun. Right? And they give you Coca Cola, that syrup is Coca Cola is the Coca Cola syrup plus the co2 gas. That's what gives us bubbles and everything. So that's it's the same type. It's exactly the same type of gas that is used. It's just to pressurize help pressurize the tank, pressurize the oil and move all the oils and terpenes off of the plant into an oil solventless. Okay, so co2 is salt is considered solvent. Listen, you'll see a lot of these today, a lot of things called rosin. And we're And, and though yes, I've seen that right. And those are simply pressed. Right. So that uses heat and pressure. A little bit like, like a think of a giant, giant giant curling iron. You know, that's or panini press? No, seriously, they don't just like big giant Panini presses.
Lalita Khosla: Is that what you do with the the first step of the crude oil? Or is that a separate process,
Kew Wagner: it's a separate process. And it is very similar in texture, it's a little less viscous than the oil that we make. But it is, again, completely solventless. It's, it's pure, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. So when you see something that is made with rosin, then that's, you know, go for it. Go for it. That's a that's a, that's a good
Lalita Khosla: thing. Okay, that's a good thing. So now, but once again, who's evaluating all of these labels on these products? If it says rosin, if it says full spectrum? How do we once again, how do we know that's what we're actually getting?
Kew Wagner: Well, that's a very good question. And that is a question we will have probably for next few years as we get some sort of next level of regulation and label claims, and what things are and what things aren't. So right now, we don't have a big answer on that, I wish we I wish we could, we have to trust the integrity of the manufacturers, I will tell you this, that. Think about your manufacturer, think about who they are, what their values are, if they're big money, cannabis, or if they're a small manufacturer, and producer, those are really big, important things to think about, you know, when you're in the store, and a regular store, right, you know, and or, you know, maybe Whole Foods or something or you if you're someone that really cares about your products and what you put into your body, you're not likely to buy a Hershey's candy bar or a Snickers candy bar, right, you're going to go to a chocolate bar that is single origin, fair trade, you know, integrity in creating the product, smallish brand, not some big corporation. And that's what I believe that the consumers will do the best, with the smaller brands, not the big money brands out to make as much money as they possibly can, in this new world of cannabis. You know, one of the things that is going on these days, is that and I you know, I tell this is on my my email, signature, big money, cannabis now sits on the back of Og pioneers, big money, cannabis has come in when it was safe and easy. And they could just come in and start running a business and they didn't have to worry about law enforcement or anything else. And you know what, they're in it for the money. They're in it for the money. So are they going to cut corners, are they going to put buzzwords on their labels are they going to just tell you what it is you want to know, most likely, because they're just in it for the money, they are there to make sure holders money, whereas your smaller labels are people who care, they care about the plant, they care about the planet, they care that you're getting the best possible product in to consume.
Lalita Khosla: That is just so beautifully said, Karen, thank you for that. And, you know, I will also send out a plea to all of our shoppers and consumers out there that you know, the business right now is very price driven. And there's a reason why brands like mine can't compete with the $3 chocolate, you know, I it cost me more to make my chocolate than $3. So I can't sell it for $3. And I really implore the consumer to go behind what that $3 means, you know, because chances are that $3 is made from mediocre chocolate that has soy in it. And that comes from distillate you know, and I use I love the word raw. I'm a bit of a closet, paleo, I'm a little bit too lazy to be genuinely paleo, because it's an effort, but I do like celebrate raw foods as much as possible. And so I use an unroasted chocolate, you know, I use a crude oil as you yourself put it and I really care about my product and the ingredients because I don't want to make or sell anything to anybody that I wouldn't enjoy and celebrate myself. But you know, that's not a profit making outlook necessarily in this industry. Because there's a friend of mine says it's just a race to the bottom. People want to get the most bang for that buck and then not looking at the rest of the ingredients because we're still in this kind of, you know, coming out of the shadows, illegal substance space, and it's really, really hard to to Do you have any kind of profit margin whatsoever?
Kew Wagner: Absolutely.
Lalita Khosla: And that's frustrating.
Kew Wagner: It certainly is.
Lalita Khosla: That's really frustrating.
Kew Wagner: Very, very frustrating. But we're, you know, we're we're moving forward. And we're hopefully educating as many people as possible about these issues. And what it means to support small versus giant corporations. It's not just the cannabis industry, right. It's in every every industry, you know what it is,
Lalita Khosla: and actually, you know, the consumers. And that's what there's this article I read today about the mind the store, I mean, the biggest reasons that some of these big companies like Apple and target used to get very poor ratings. And Sephora too, used to get very poor ratings by this mind, the store survey, and now they're, they've really improved is because consumers care. And I think it was like, a couple years ago, some big brands like Duncan Hines, and, and Heinz ketchup, and, you know, there was some big brands that actually got their value, the value of this stock down written, because they were performing so badly. And it's like, yeah, you know, what, what, savviest consumers now, we don't want toxic products in our food in our cleaning products, in, you know, our makeup, we don't want that stuff anymore. We've savvy it up. Now we know that's not good for us, or our children, or our the planet that we're leaving to our children, you know, and women really were the Alpha consumers for the household. And we're leading this charge, and we have a lot of power. And, you know, what I say is bring that power into the cannabis marketplace. Because yeah, there are a lot of even though it's regulated, there are a lot of morally shady operators out there, you know, producing substandard products that are appealing only because of the price point. And you've really just got to look at more than the price point, you know, and I'm selling my chocolates for five $5. They're not, you know, they're not prohibitive. But they really mean that I'm not competing with the, you know, two or the $3. Chocolate Exactly.
Kew Wagner: Well, Bad Mommy, but I have confidence this is going to be your launch is going to be great. People are going to love it when they actually have your chocolates. And I think you're so close to being right on, you are right on target with the product. And it's going to be just a fabulous launch. And everyone's saying,
Lalita Khosla: keto. Tell, how can consumers find your beautiful oils and other products?
Kew Wagner: Oh, you know, that's a that's a good question. These days, you know, we were the founding oil for many, many products. And I actually don't even want to say that now because most of them have moved on to the dreaded distillate. So I don't want to call, you know,
Lalita Khosla: and that's all because of this this price. Yeah, we I think we can almost call it a price war, right between the artisanal products and the mass produced
Kew Wagner: products. Exactly. But I can tell you that certainly prior to 2018, before people could really use utilize, you know, butane hash oil, we were the suppliers for all the major brands, you know, as cocoa used our products as their, their primary oil, you know, all the way down to bloom vape pens, brass knuckles down in LA, you know, we supplied oil to a lot, a lot, a lot of the major brands. Yeah.
Lalita Khosla: So, so to avoid the butane hash oil, once again, you say go to the CLA and see what's on there.
Kew Wagner: Yeah, I think that's going to be the best the problem is going to be to compare it to another product, you'd have to look at both products to somebody that has, has been used using raw oils, if you will, again, to someone who's been using distillate and to kind of look at those two things and be able to compare them. So maybe that's something we should do in a written format about Bad Mommy and put it into, you know, make a side by side comparison on your website. That'd be interesting. You can do that.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, that would be interesting. Let's work on that in all our free time. All right. Well, thank you so much. full overview of the complexities of cannabis products. And thank you for all of your insight.
Kew Wagner: You are most welcome and let's let's get that product on the shelf.
Lalita Khosla: Yes, yes, yes. Thank you bad. Okay.
Kew Wagner: pleasure. I appreciate the time and the attention. Thank you so much.
Lalita Khosla: Okay, that's our episode for today. Thanks for listening. You can find us at Bad Mommy edibles.com or Instagram at Bad Mommy Edibles. Send us your questions to mommy at Bad Mommy edibles.com. Please consider subscribing and sharing with all of your Bad Mommy friends and your friends who also want to be bad mommies until next time. I'm your host Lalita Khosla the rich
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