Episode 3: My Favorite Swashbuckler
On this episode of The Bad Mommy Experience, we welcome seasoned cannabis industry veteran Annie Holman. Annie is the dynamo behind Derby Bakery and the Founder and CEO of The Galley, a cannabis co-manufacturing facility. In her raucous conversation, she shares the secret ingredient in her weed-infused peanut butter cups, explains why joints aren’t always safe to smoke, and reveals a shocking use for Coca Cola.
ABOUT THE GUEST
Maine-born Annie Holman is a storyteller, sculpture artist, Burning Man devotee, and burrito enthusiast. A successful career in marketing left her burnt out and wracked with body pain, until deliverance arrived in the form of a CBD tincture. Annie transitioned off of traditional pharmaceuticals with the help of low-dose edibles, and opened the Derby Bakery in Northern CA to help others do the same. Now, Annie serves as founder and CEO of The Galley, a state-of-the-art cannabis co-manufacturing and distribution facility in Santa Rosa, CA. Annie looks forward to many fruitful friendships in the industry, and helping more people meet each day with a smile on their faces.
RELATED LINKS
Annie Holman of The Galley Chats About Five Questions (Forbes)
Alcohol is killing more people, and younger. The biggest increases are among women (USA Today)
Bay Area marijuana producer switches Santa Rosa factory to making hand sanitizer (SF Chronicle) (Go Annie!)
CREDITS
Host & creator: Lalita Khosla
Producer: Theo Nogueira
Marketing Manager: Sarah Thibault
Production Assistant: Sophie Pelosi
Special thanks to our sponsor Raaka Chocolate
Lalita Khosla: Welcome to The Bad Mommy Experience, the Bad Mommy Potcast: your guide to the best people, products, and practices in Cannabis 2.0. I'm Lalita Khosla, founder of Bad Mommy Edibles, a microdosed chocolate brand for moms based in California. We'll be coming soon to a dispensary near you.
Even though I am Indian and look like I play a doctor on TV, I am really not a doctor. So any information you learn about cannabis in this podcast is definitely designed to help you, but please discuss any new program with your medical professional first.
Lalita Khosla: Annie giiiirrrrlllll!!! Welcome to the Bad Mommy Potcast!
Annie Holman: Thank you for having me.
Lalita Khosla: Who cares if USA Today's using it?? I'm using it! [Laughter] When you say that as moms, we all know that we have to tell some people to get out of the way...
Annie Holman: Yeah. A lot of people, like, all the soccer moms.
Lalita Khosla: Yes. The soccer moms... of whom I'm one!
Annie Holman: Sorry! [Laughs]
Lalita Khosla: I'm kind of proud to be a soccer mom, as long as you can use it a little bit, you know, irreverently, which, you know, brings us to the whole idea and concept of Bad Mommy. And what I love about Annie is, you know, the whole Bad Mommy thing; half the people who hear the name are like, "Oh, I don't want to be a bad mommy. And then the other half of the people are like, I AM a Bad Mommy!"
Annie Holman: Exactly, yeah.
Lalita Khosla: So, what did you first think when you heard the name Bad Mommy?
Annie Holman: I love the Bad Mommy and I am a Bad Mommy. And I don't think that's a bad thing. It's about balance. And a lot of people don't get that. A lot of women don't get it. Moms don't get it. And all, you know, they just do everything for their kids and their husbands and they don't have any balance.
Lalita Khosla: Right, right. And then they burn out.
Annie Holman: And then they burn out, and then they get pissed off, and then they're mean mommies.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And we don't, we don't want any mean mommies.
Annie Holman: No!
Lalita Khosla: I think that's the mission of Bad Mommy.
Annie Holman: They need your chocolate!
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, thank you. [Laughter] So Annie, okay, now that we know that you are a card-carrying Bad Mommy, tell me what you do.
Annie Holman: So I am a contract manufacturer. And we are bringing up cannabis and co-manufacturing facility. So it's kinda like the Trader Joe's of cannabis. So being a bad mom, you go to Trader Joe's?
Lalita Khosla: Absolutely.
Annie Holman: We're gonna be basically making everybody's products for them, making all the Bad Mommy products for them.
Lalita Khosla: And what brought you into the cannabis world? Cuz this isn't your first rodeo.
Annie Holman: No, it's not. I actually was gobbling so much Advil, my liver was screaming at me, and eating way too much Klonopin, so much so that I couldn't really remember my name. And these drugs are not good for you. And so I was doing that because I was a graphic designer. I was on my computer all the time. And I just had to make a change. And somebody said, "How about you try cannabis for sleeping instead of Klonopin, and try cannabis for inflammation– CBD?" And so I did. And it worked for me, especially for the sleeping. And so I had a friend who won some money at the Kentucky Derby and she threw me $100,000 and said, "Start us bakery." So...
Lalita Khosla: Really? I never heard that story. Tell me a little bit more about that.
Annie Holman: Yeah, so my– It was a client of mine. So I've been a graphic designer since before computers. She was my client. She had cannabis insurance. And so I helped her bring her company from three to 20 people. I was a marketing person; graphic design. And we just got this idea about running out a bakery. And she is one of the luckiest people I've ever met in my life. And she was at the Kentucky Derby in 2015 where the California Chrome Horse was on board. And she bet the trifecta and won like, a couple hundred thousand dollars.
Lalita Khosla: That is unbelievable. How much did she bet to win that?
Annie Holman: I don't know actually, but she came back and wrote me a check and said, "Start this bakery." So we called it Derby Bakery. And we actually had a lot of good traction throughout the state early on because–
Lalita Khosla: People LOVED your products.
Annie Holman: Yes.
Lalita Khosla: For listeners out there who weren't familiar with products in the medical market in California pre-2018, Annie made the most delicious peanut butter cups that you've ever tasted. And they were pretty addictive. [Laughs]
Annie Holman: But here's the secret! Let me tell you the secret– now everyone's gonna know–we used Skippy peanut butter. [Laughter]
Lalita Khosla: There was no– there was no organic on that packaging.
Annie Holman: Oh man, no. Not at all, but we're gonna bring the peanut butter cups back– not with Skippy, but–
Lalita Khosla: They are delicious.
Annie Holman: Yeah.
Lalita Khosla: Everybody loves those.
Annie Holman No, they're good. They're a good little treat, actually, a nice little treat. But um, yeah, so we had a lot of good traction, because we were one of the first companies to do our products with CO2 oil. So you know, all of the people in my generation, you know, they don't really like to eat a weedy cookie necessarily. And so we were really one of the first edible companies to do that. And so we actually took home a lot of rewards because our cookies tasted good. We had a lot of problems with people eating too much of them.
Lalita Khosla: Yes, because they tasted so good!
Annie Holman: Yes. Not problems, but people call me up and I'd say, "Well, only eat half," and then they would be– "I tried. I couldn't."
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, well, yeah, I get that all the time, too. And it's so funny because it is difficult when you make a delicious product.
Annie Holman: It is.
Lalita Khosla: And that's why the packaging says, you know, 'This is medicine and not food.' Exactly. But people don't really read, you know, the packaging.
Annie Holman: No, no.
Lalita Khosla: They go with their gut.
Annie Holman: Right.
Lalita Khosla: Rather than their head.
Annie Holman: I had to babysit more than, more than my share of people. [Laughter] Mostly my friends! Not patients. I'm talking my friends, who didn't listen to me.
Lalita Khosla: Well, actually, that brings up a good point, because a lot of reasons that our friends are hesitant to try pot is because they are afraid of getting too high and losing control. So what– what did you do when your friends might have had a less than awesome experience?
Annie Holman: Well, um, you know, I learned a trick back 30 years ago, at a Rolling Stones concert, when somebody passed me a joint that had some Keef in it. And, you know, I was immediately just out of my mind. So I went and stood by the medical tent for 20 minutes, and this doc kept coming out. And he kept saying, "Can I help you?" And I was like, "Nope, just want to hang out here, you know." [Laughs]
And finally, he just came out, like three times in a row. And he said, "What happened?" And I told him, you know, and he said, "Come sit down." So I went and sat down, he comes back, and he's got this huge thing of Coca Cola, like a Big Gulp. So that actually works to level you off; it's got a lot of sugar, it's got a lot of caffeine. So some, some kind of drinks with high sugar in it. But I would recommend when you're experimenting with edibles, to have some cans of Coke in your refrigerator. Seriously.
Lalita Khosla: That is really smart.
Annie Holman: And also the CBD of course. That levels you out, too. But the Coke levels you out really fast because of the sugar and the caffeine, and whatever's in that recipe that they've never let go with, which is probably you know, cocaine. So– [Laughter]
Annie Holman: Nobody knows what's in that recipe! But I will tell you, it's happened to me a couple of times. In fact, unfortunately, even in this regulated market, somebody passed me a joint three months ago, and I took one hit off of it and I was just out of my mind. And that's really uncomfortable for people. It's not fun. It's uncomfortable. I mean, I had to literally have somebody put me in an Uber, make sure that I had the right address, buckle my seatbelt, I mean, that's how high I was. And that was taking one hit off a joint, you know. And I saw the person that next day, who's more of a seasoned user than I am, and–
Lalita Khosla: But you're an experienced user!
Annie Holman: I am, I know I am. That's what I'm saying. But I still...
Lalita Khosla: And this is why– yeah, it happens to all of us–
Annie Holman: It does.
Lalita Khosla: It's just like, sometimes you have too much to drink, you know? It happens to all of us.
Annie Holman: It does, and it shouldn't with the, with the regulated market, but, you know, you can't control what somebody's going to eat if you tell them to eat five milligrams and they eat 10.
Lalita Khosla: Right.
Annie Holman: And also the joint situation– I never really thought about as being a pain point in this situation, but it is. Because as it turned out that joint was dipped in something.
Lalita Khosla: Oh my God.
Annie Holman: You know, like some kind of–
Lalita Khosla: But why wouldn't they tell you that before offering it?
Annie Holman: Well, I didn't ask– Well, yeah, they should have.
Lalita Khosla: That's a good best practice, folks.
Annie Holman: Yeah.
Lalita Khosla: When someone offers you something...
Annie Holman: Ask about it.
Lalita Khosla: Ask about it. Yeah, and especially if it's– that's the reason why I'm not really much of a smoker, because I find that smoking and vaping they're like– I call them freight trains, they just take over so quickly and so fast and it's, for me it's just too much. I like something that's kind of light and playful.
Annie Holman: Low, low, yeah.
Lalita Khosla: And that's why my passion was to create a microdosing brand, which is what Bad Mommy is–
Annie Holman: Which you did very well.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, thank you. So, so yeah, so when you have a Bad Mommy chocolate you kind of do know the experience you're in for, but with that said, don't have more than one.
Annie Holman: Right, right.
Lalita Khosla: One's fine!
Annie Holman: Low and slow, people! Low and slow. [Laughter]
Lalita Khosla: Hey, you're listening to The Bad Mommy Experience, brought to you by Bad Mommy Edibles: Chocolate with Benefits. The Bad Mommy Experience is also brought to you by Raaka Chocolate. You can find them at RaakaChocolate.com– that's r-a-a-k-a– and they are the finest unroasted chocolate you will ever find and exactly what we use in our premium quality edibles.
Lalita Khosla
It's funny that you brought up the joint experience because I was actually at a cannabis event, and I was sitting there, you know, at a table full of stoners– who be now call enthusiasts– [Laughter]
Annie Holman: Is that what it is??
Lalita Khosla: Well, I do anyway.
Annie Holman: Or how about the black market is now the "duty-free market"? [Laughs]
Lalita Khosla: Oh yes. Or informal?
Annie Holman: Or illicit.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, illicit! Yeah, listen, yeah,
Annie Holman: Oh, my goodness.
Lalita Khosla: We do love–we do love words in English.
Annie Holman: Yes.
Lalita Khosla: God love us. So I was at this, you know, table full of stoners at this launch party event. And someone offered me a joint. And I rarely smoke. But you know, here we are at an event, why not? And it had been a long, hard day. And I took a hit of it. And it was just too strong. I mean, it wasn't crazy, like paralytics strong, right, but it was just stronger than I wanted. And I just sat there looking at the people around me–
Annie Holman: Right? It changes your–
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, I'm like, these are my buddies. So they said to them, I said, "I'm just a little bit too high." [Laughs] And the woman across from me said, "I've been like that all day!" [Laughter] So that's the thing to know that, you know, even if you do get a little bit beyond your preference, yeah. You don't lose control.
Annie Holman: No.
Lalita Khosla: You just realize that you're high, you realize what's going on. And then you just do whatever you need to do to bring yourself down, whether that's to have someone put you in an Uber, or, now we know, drink a can of Coke! I've also heard that orange juice is good–
Annie Holman: Because it's high sugar.
Lalita Khosla: Coffee is good, taking a shower is good. Eating is good. Yeah. So there are a lot of good hacks to kind of manage the experience.
Annie Holman: Definitely. And I mean, it all depends on what you're doing, too. If you eat on an empty stomach, that's going to change your game. You're gonna get higher, faster... and higher.
Lalita Khosla: Yes, yes.
Annie Holman: You know, so it's always good to eat something first, before you have an edible, you know, and definitely don't mix it with alcohol, because that compounds what your experience is going to be.
Lalita Khosla: And also if you mix it with smoking, too, right?
Annie Holman: Big time.
Lalita Khosla: If you have an edible and then a joint, that's going to be super powerful.
Annie Holman: And the problem with some of the joints is, like what I experienced, is that joint was dipped in something that actually– Normally, when you smoke, the effects, you know, after 30 minutes or so, are going to be way less. I was up till two o'clock in the morning with, you know, somewhat hallucinatory effects, and it was a bummer. And you know, even having some Coke and some CBD didn't really bring that down. So that means whatever that joint was dipped in was, you know, too strong.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah. Yeah.
Annie Holman: So, you know, I understand how people feel about that, and it is– And even me being seasoned, I, you know, I should have asked that person. And I did not.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, yeah, the Rule Number One is ask, and Rule Number Two is: No need to panic.
Annie Holman: Right.
Lalita Khosla: You know, you don't need to go to the emergency room. Honestly, I don't understand why people- The ER is the worst place to be if you're having a bad trip!
Annie Holman: Oh, for sure.
Lalita Khosla: I mean, the lights, the cold, the doctors, being touched. "Do you have insurance?!" [Laughing]
Annie Holman: They tell you how much you weigh!! And you're like, oh my God!
Lalita Khosla: Now I'm depressed! Now I'm suicidal!
Annie Holman: Reality check. Now I'm not high at all! Forget it.
Lalita Khosla: That's a good hack. So people, they love to ask me, with Bad Mommy– They somehow think that Bad Mommy is all about how to enjoy weed and parent at the same time. And that's honestly not really what Bad Mommy is about. Bad Mommy is a nice, sweet, healthy treat for yourself. Not for your children, and not necessarily for you to enjoy around your children. That is always a personal choice.
Annie Holman: Right.
Lalita Khosla: But do you have any insights about weed and parenting?
Annie Holman: Yeah, I mean, I was raised by a couple of heathen hippies. Artists, both my parents were artists. My dad used to grow plants in our backyard. Of course, this was back in the, you know, late 60s, early 70s. And he used to roll his joints in strawberry rolling paper. And he would never smoke in front of us, but he would step outside and you know, occasionally–
Lalita Khosla: What's strawberry rolling paper?
Annie Holman: You know, like rolling paper that is strawberry scented.
Lalita Khosla: Oh! [Laughter] That exists??
Annie Holman: Well it did back then. This is a long time ago.
Lalita Khosla: That's in the 80s, right?!
Annie Holman: Yeah. I'm really bad at math; I'm an artist, and I'm dyslexic, so don't ask me to add anything. But um, yeah. So my parents were pretty open about both– Well, back then, of course, it was called marijuana or pot actually. And my parents were also really open and straightforward with us about alcohol too. And therefore, guess what? I don't abuse anything. I don't abuse alcohol. I don't abuse pot. Because they were so like, hey, if you go to a party, you have too much to drink or smoke; when you want to try pot, come and talk to us. You know? And I did!
Lalita Khosla: You did? What was that experience like for you?
Annie Holman: I was probably– I was kind of a late bloomer, because I tried pot early, like probably 15 or 16. I didn't like it. Made me paranoid, made me quiet. Made me NOT funny, you know, where it's– You know, wine, or beer, tequila, which are my three things that I like to drink, that enhances my personality. So the weed back then was very different, you know? Now you've got all these nice strains out here that make you feel more uppity which for me, being an uppity person, I don't know why I need to feel more uppity but apparently I do, so.
Lalita Khosla: You need to up your uppity.
Annie Holman: So my parents, yeah, we smoked with my dad– or I did.
Lalita Khosla: What age where you?
Annie Holman: I was probably 17, maybe. Yeah, yeah. Because I had tried it on my own first and then– and I still didn't really care for it. And so honestly, in college, I never really smoked much because it kind of usually brought me down and I didn't like it. So it wasn't really until I got into my early 40s where I started experimenting with pot again– now cannabis.
Lalita Khosla: Yes.
Annie Holman: Now we can talk cannabis again! And everything has changed, you know so. And I would do exactly the same! My daughter knows exactly what I do. She has known what I have done from the beginning. No, I don't leave it around my house. No, I do not smoke in front of it. But we do grow plants in our backyard. My husband smokes. He's been a longtime smoker. And I equate pot, or cannabis, with alcohol. In fact, I think now that I have revisited and found a brand new love for cannabis, I hardly drink. And honestly, the lack o'hangover is working for me. [Laughs]
Lalita Khosla: It's huge, right??
Annie Holman: I mean, even for now, at my age, two glasses of wine: I don't feel good the next day. And, I mean, I used to be able to bottle no problem, you know?
Lalita Khosla: Right.
Annie Holman: I still can! [Laughter]
Lalita Khosla: Yeah. Push comes to shove!
Annie Holman: Don't get me wrong! Not a problem for me.
Lalita Khosla: I have a friend of mine who says, "Push comes to shovel."
Annie Holman: Yeah. Right. But then the next day, I mean, I feel like you know, terrible.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, you really do.
Annie Holman: I feel tired, sometimes, and with eating an edible or smoking some CBD... or what I'm really into right now is the cannabis drinks. Because they're kind of like wine, and you can regulate them, and they go through your system in a different way, faster.
Lalita Khosla: And the onset is quick.
Annie Holman: Onset is quick. And the onset doesn't last as long as an edible and so I can regulate it really well. And I can say oh, I've had too much... I mean, I never say that but– [Laughter]
Lalita Khosla: Theoretically!
Annie Holman: My brain sometimes will say that and occasionally I'll stop. So.
Lalita Khosla: But the nice thing when you've had, you know, unless you're on this, like, kind of weird Gary Cohn dipped joint experience– The nice thing most of time if you had a little bit too much? Just go to sleep!
Annie Holman: Right.
Lalita Khosla: And then you wake up refreshed!
Annie Holman: Right.
Lalita Khosla: It's all good!
Annie Holman: Exactly. And you're not hungover and you know, your stomach doesn't hurt. And, you know, not to mention, your organs are not getting taxed. I mean, alcohol is really bad for you!
Lalita Khosla: It is, it's like a low level of poison in your bloodstream.
Annie Holman: It is and yeah, that's–
Lalita Khosla: And you know, full disclosure. I love drinking.
Annie Holman: Me too! Love it!
Lalita Khosla: I love it all. I love cocktails. I love wine. I love the buzz. I love the conviviality. But you know–
Annie Holman: Yep. The clinking!
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, exactly. Everything. Well, and it's also so conditioned and ingrained in our culture, and really marketed to women the last 10 years; so much to the point that, I mean, alcohol deaths amongst women have risen 80%.
Annie Holman: Oh, wow. I did not know that.
Lalita Khosla: And it's worse than the opioid crisis. And it's so submerged.
Annie Holman: Is that like driving stuff, or just, you know, accidents? Or just like too– drink yourself to death.
Lalita Khosla: I don't know what, yeah, I don't know if it's gross– It says alcohol related deaths. Good, good question. But this was actually in my rival podcast outlets. [Laughs] USA Today! This is a major study released on the front page of USA Today, probably about nine months ago. And still no one's talking about. It's so ingrained in our culture.
Annie Holman: Well, no. That's the first I've heard. That's the first I've heard of that. And I'm pretty up on the news. And, yeah, I've not heard that. Wow, that's interesting.
Lalita Khosla: So you know, it really is time for a change. And I hope that all of the ritual and conviviality and congeniality that we do get from our drinking culture can now also infuse on cannabis culture. Do you think?
Annie Holman: Exactly. Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, the train's left the building, and it's not coming at us full fledged with a light, you know, it's just kind of going along throughout the country. And I mean, even you look at states like Oklahoma, hello!
Lalita Khosla: Yeah. Did you see that– all these people ran and got their medical cards?
Annie Holman: Yeah. Yeah.
Lalita Khosla: For the listeners who don't know, the, you know, Oklahoma just went medical and there's like a huge percentage of citizens– of state citizens– who went and got the medical cards.
Annie Holman: Exactly. Yeah. So you know, I think people just need permission. And we have to give people permission.
Lalita Khosla: And it's also fear! There's a lot of fear out there.
Annie Holman: There is fear.
Lalita Khosla: I mean, you know, cannabis was stigmatized for decades, and prohibition, a lot of that was about really stigmatization, so it really needs to come out and just have a coming out party.
Annie Holman: Yeah! [Laughter]
Annie Holman: Well, actually, we are bringing– we're gonna bring back up our Women's Cannabis Group and actually, we're just this time– We started this group, like five years ago, it was it was shoot off of Women Grow. So we're gonna bring that back up and start having events–
Lalita Khosla: And where's that based?
Annie Holman: That's gonna be based right here.
Lalita Khosla: Great, okay.
Annie Holman : Right here at the Galley. And so we're going to have events–
Lalita Khosla: We're in Santa Rosa. Annie's manufacturing facility is totally badass, and awesome, and in Santa Rosa, which is in Sonoma County, California.
Annie Holman: Yep. So we're gonna bring that women's group back up again. And then we have, you know, plan to have educational events and, and reduce that fear and be able to invite not only people in the industry, but people outside of the industry who want to understand cannabis better. You know, and we can have consumption here because we have a separate piece of property. And so, you know, people can be in a safe environment with other women–
Lalita Khosla: And some cans of Coke.
Annie Holman: –And feel good about they're doing– and some cans of Coke! A whole refrigerator of em!
[Laughter]
Lalita Khosla: So, what is Cannabis 2.0? It's this whole new, wide, wonderful world of regulated, lab-tested products. And we're here at Bad Mommy to guide you to the best people, products, and practices in this marketplace.
Lalita Khosla: You remember sort of your first fun cannabis experience? Like when did you kind of come round to it?
Annie Holman: It was definitely as an adult, and it was around once I got into the industry, and it was around all the other people in the industry. And for me again, like, I was scared of it too, quite honestly.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, everyone is scared of it!
Annie Holman: Yeah, I was! I mean, I was, you know–
Lalita Khosla: I mean, I just don't remember being scared of it. But I'm sure I was.
Annie Holman: I definitely was. Like in the beginning, quite honestly, I'd be with people and they'd start handing around the edibles, and I would do that thing like when people throw the drink over their shoulder instead of doing the shot! [Laughs]
Annie Holman: So I would like, put a little of it in my mouth and then turn around and spit it out in my hand.
Lalita Khosla: Really?!
Annie Holman: Because I was, you know, cuz I didn't– Because back then–
Lalita Khosla: What was it, like a brownie? What was it?
Annie Holman: Yeah, this was five years ago, you know, when, when people– The testing wasn't rigorous, and so even though you bought something at a dispensary, sometimes you got stuff that was too strong.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah.
Annie Holman: And you didn't know exactly what kind of cannabis it was, there was no Sativa or Indica, or any type of CBDs, it was just a cannabis brownie. And so that to me was scary. And because I did have a couple experiences where I did eat too much and, you know, had to go have Coca Cola.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah.
Annie Holman: But even that doesn't completely stave it off, you know... So I would say when I really started to have fun with it was– I just started really slowly. And, you know, when I stopped spitting it out into a napkin– [Laughter]
Lalita Khosla: So that's interesting, that–
Annie Holman: I would say it was around other cannabis people that I felt comfortable around, mostly women. When I started slow I would eat, you know, whatever, 2.5 milligrams, three milligrams, then for me– And it was a Sativa high, and so it was more, like I said, uppity and–
Lalita Khosla: Social.
Annie Holman: Social. It was more social, which I'm a massively social person.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, me too. Me too.
Annie Holman: You know, I don't like to sit in the corner and be quiet. Ever.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, so do you remember a particular early positive experience? That would be kind of inspiring?
Annie Holman: Not– Not really. When I was younger, I mean, in my college days, I didn't smoke, as I said. For me– yeah, I would say: a real positive experience was in opening this facility. Last year, we had a 420 party, and just having all the people around me... I mean, the one thing I can say about cannabis– it's a tribe of people. And it's a tribe of really, seriously some of the most ethical, hardworking, badass people I have ever met in my life. And I've always been an entrepreneur, I've never worked for anyone, I have never had a job with anyone. I've always had my own business. And so to have a party and to have all these people around me and to enjoy cannabis in that celebratory way was– that was actually pretty amazing day. So we all had our little mermaid crowns on and so...
Lalita Khosla: I was at that party. And it rocked. And yeah, I have to say, that that's one of the things that keeps me in this incredibly volatile and complicated industry, is it is such a great self-selected group of people.
Annie Holman: It is, it really is.
Lalita Khosla: And it does defy the stoner stereotype–
Annie Holman: Totally.
Lalita Khosla: –that's part of the stigma. Like, I've met so many highly functioning people and you know– yes, pun is somewhat intended– but it's just like, you know, people are just really creative and very adoptive, and, and out of the box.
Annie Holman: And hardworking! So hard working. I see– I mean, I'm working really hard right now, way too much. I'm tired from it. But, you know, just the supportiveness in this, and the cohesiveness in the cannabis industry... It's not just those women. But, I mean, I never call anyone and ask a question; I never get the answer, "I'm sorry. I can't tell you that." You know, some proprietary secret– even if it is kind of teetering on that, I still get an answer. And guess what? I do the same thing back; I spend my time all the time helping people, and that's not really exactly what I should be doing. But it always comes back to me and especially in this industry.
Lalita Khosla: And then, so what would be your advice to somebody who's like, "Okay, yeah, I'm willing to come over to the cannabis side. But I still do have some of these fears, and I don't really know what's gonna work for me." What do you, what do you tell the kind of canna-curious?
Annie Holman: Run like the wind. I mean, do you mean someone who wants to try cannabis?
Lalita Khosla: Yes.
Annie Holman: Or someone who wants to get into the business?
Lalita Khosla: No, no, the newbie consumer.
Annie Holman: Oh, okay, the newbie consumer? Okay, I would definitely recommend that you talk to your friends first, find out what they're doing, where they got their products from. Sometimes when you go to the dispensaries that can be a little intimidating, so I would recommend a delivery service perhaps. Because those people can come in and, you know, really go through their product line with you. I know that the delivery service is very happy to share any information they have from you. So that could be a little bit more of an intimate setting. Definitely in trying cannabis for the first time be around people you trust, be around people that you can talk to. And again, go low and slow. I mean, you need to seriously start out, in my opinion, at one milligram. One bite, and then you give it a while, you know, that's everybody's mistake. "I'm not high," you know–But you're going to have to start being careful, because there are going to be a lot of new products out there that have rapid onset. So you need to really know what you're eating or smoking.
Lalita Khosla: Right. Right. So education–
Annie Holman: Really educate yourself.
Lalita Khosla: Like, don't rely on somebody else to do that, like definitely ask your friends for recommendations and advice. But when it comes down to your consumption, it's just you and that product, okay, no one else can micromanage that for you.
Annie Holman: And everybody's body is so incredibly different. And again, I just touched on, if you don't eat, or you mix it with alcohol, or, you know, whatever the– or even your mood can affect how this affects you. And so it's just really important to just go slow, and then– And even the next few times continue to go slow.
Lalita Khosla: Right.
Annie Holman: Because you're like, "Okay, I didn't feel much," okay, and that's okay. So then I'll put a milligram or two– don't up it 10 milligrams– because the difference between 2.5 milligrams and ten is ginormous.
Lalita Khosla: It is. And that's actually– listeners should know that. It's kind of exponential. It's just not– it's not four times. It kind of is exponential in the way that your body works and kind of surfs that experience. And if you're not used to it, it's not pleasant. And then even if you are used to it, it kind of depends on how potent the product is– it can still not be pleasant. [Laughs]
Annie Holman: The whole low dose thing, especially for women, it's just brilliant. I mean, it's just the way you need to go. And it is like having a glass of wine if you have 2.5 milligrams after work. You can still cook, you can still interact with your family, you could still, you could still talk. [Laughs] You won't be laid out.
Lalita Khosla: I had 2.5 milligrams the other day, and I found my husband charming. [Laughter]
Annie Holman: Yeah. No, it's true. I came home the other day, somebody gave me some powder, because that's kind of the wave, is THC powder. And its flavorless, and so I put it in, I put 10 milligrams and a glass of water, and it dissolved; it homogenized really well, so I knew I was getting an even drink. And I drank half of it. And I came home and, you know, I mean, okay. I get meals delivered to my house that I have to cook and it's still a pain in my ass, you know? So I have some of this and I turned my music on. And I made dinner and it just– I'm like, "Okay, I'm doing that every night. Just like, you know, 2.5 milligrams.
Lalita Khosla: And do you know what varietal is was...?
Annie Holman: It was you know, it was a Sativa. Yeah. Yeah. And then it wore off, and I got the munchies, so. [Laughter]
Lalita Khosla: That is actually– I ask all of my guests, "What as your hack for the munchies?" because that's the second-biggest fear.
Annie Holman: You know what? I'm a woman. It is a big fear. And I gotta tell you, like, I ate, like, seriously a pint– a half a pint of ice cream and a huge bowl of popcorn. [Laughter] And I wasn't even hungry!
Lalita Khosla: You were doing it sweet and savory!
Annie Holman: I did! First I ate the ice cream and then I'm like, Oh, now I need some salt! I got on and all that crappy popcorn with all the stuff all over it, you know, Smart Food. Really not very smart–
Lalita Khosla: Dumb food.
Annie Holman: I like it. Anyway, so I'm not a big junk food person. But yeah, I don't know. One thing I have noticed with cannabis, though, is some cannabis gives me the massive munchies and other cannabis does not affect me that way.
Lalita Khosla: So do you think it's whether it's Sativa or Indica dominant? Or–
Annie Holman: I don't know.
Lalita Khosla: Or do you think it's varietal?
Annie Holman: Oh, yeah. I really– I think for me, it's probably the varietals. I think you're gonna have to play with different strains and figure it out. Also, the other thing you can do is– What I'm planning to do, because I liked that experience of having the cannabis while cooking– and I also found my husband charming and my daughter, too! [Laughter] No one was irritating me, I was all good.
Lalita Khosla: So basically the cannabis brings the rest of your family up to the same level... to about the way you feel about your dog. [Laughter]
Annie Holman: Exactly. And my dog never makes me mad. Dog never irritates me. She does what I say.
Lalita Khosla: Happy to see me...
Annie Holman: Doesn't leave their shoes at the bottom of the stairs...
Lalita Khosla: Exactly, cleans up after herself...
Annie Holman : Doesn't come home and drop their pants.
Lalita Khosla: She licks the floor. I'm talking about spit polishing– [Laughter] Never have to wash your bowl.
Annie Holman: Never!
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, actually, I have a hack for the munchies. Because my theory is, yes, cannabis in general, whether it's Indica or Sativa makes you very aware of your body. I mean, I think it's actually the perfect mind-body high because it activates your mind and activates your body, and so it does activate all your senses, and one of your senses is your appetite, really. The reason I find I get the munchies is because I forget to eat. It could have been your case, right? Because you were cooking dinner, so you hadn't ate!
Annie Holman: No, I ate. [Laughter]
Lalita Khosla: Okay, but what I tell my, what I tell my customers is, you know– First of all, I do recommend, especially when you're starting out, to take the edible on an empty stomach because you just need to know what your baseline is.
Annie Holman: That's a good idea.
Lalita Khosla: And if you take it on some– if you take it with food or on a full stomach, it delays the onset. We're not talking about beverages here, we're talking about solid food edibles, which really do take a good 30 to 45 minutes for your liver to metabolize and to get to your system and in fact, you know, affect all parts of your body. [Laughs] What I say is take your edible and wait half an hour, but then have a salad ready to go, or have something light and, you know, a piece of fruit, or a little bit of cheese or something that is substantial enough–
Annie Holman: Avocado.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, exactly. You know, having something that's substantial enough to take away hunger pangs, but not like crazy, you know, go on an eating, you know, eating frenzy. So yeah, don't have ice cream or the popcorn around.
Annie Holman: That's sort of was–
Lalita Khosla: Put those away!
Annie Holman: –And I was thinking that too. I said, All right. Next, you know, I'm gonna have like some fruit, cut up berries, things like that that I can go down and grab instead of going for the ice cream.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, exactly. Just to have something standing by. And then even if you take it 30 minutes and your edible hasn't quite hit, your edibles far enough along right that it will hit and you won't be super hungry. And yeah, because you know, just this fear of munchies shouldn't keep us from the wonderful, you know, therapeutic properties.
Annie Holman: And honestly, most pot does, for some reason, doesn't give me the munchies. It does not.
Lalita Khosla: Right. Yeah, exactly.
Annie Holman: I don't know why, if it's just different strains– It's something that I've just recently noticed. Because I had the munchies so bad the other night, I'm thinking, do I always do this? No, I don't. So yeah, interesting–
Lalita Khosla: That's another good thing to track. You know, Bad Mommy is actually going to be coming out with a cannabis journal.
Annie Holman: That's a great idea.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah, because we really are all different. And the products are all different. And the state we're in, as I mentioned, when we take them is different. So the journal will help you track all of those things on one page. And then this brings me to my final question for you: On the other page, it's all notes for all the brilliant ideas you're gonna have. [Laughter] So what's the best idea and the worst idea you had when high, Annie?
Annie Holman: Well, I can tell you the worst idea I ever had was letting my husband buy a 1960 El Camino and putting it in my driveway.
Lalita Khosla: Oh, yeah. How high were you?!
Annie Holman: Oh god. He talked to me after I had smoked, and I was– he had been wanting a fixer-upper car.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah. Yeah.
Annie Holman: So I agreed to that. And it was literally in my driveway, like, two days later.
Lalita Khosla: He ran with it! He ran with it!
Annie Holman: And I was kind of: "What, what what?" No, yeah no, he ran with it. So that was definitely the worst decision I've made.
Lalita Khosla: And how about any brilliant ideas?
Annie Holman: You know, I get very creative on cannabis. And I'm always thinking of things. And one of the things for me, you know, like your journal or something like that, that I'm trying to think of these little ancillary pieces that we can put together with this manufacturing business, you know, like, like, what you're doing. That's a great idea, you know–
Lalita Khosla: Well, I did come up with that idea high. [Laughs]
Annie Holman: That's great. No, I mean, I come up with like, all kinds of, like, T-shirt phrases, and I named a bunch of the different rooms that we're going to be producing in and...
Lalita Khosla: Oh, great. So what are you doing now?
Annie Holman: So I am a one-third owner of a women-owned company called The Galley, and we are a cannabis co-manufacturer. And so we are here in Santa Rosa, California, in Sonoma County. And we are opening our doors in March actually.
Lalita Khosla: Super excited.
Annie Holman: Yes. Very. So it's been a bit of a long road. We've been at the project for two years. The first year was a lot of planning. The second year I raised $3 million for our company–
Lalita Khosla: You're badass.
Annie Holman: Thank you. Yes, I learned how to talk to financial people pretty quickly. You need to be very direct. [Laughs] "Do you have money and will you give it to me? And on what terms? Yes or no?!"
Lalita Khosla: And self-deprecation and humor? Do not work with them.
Annie Holman: Yeah, no. No. The money people are all about the money. So anyway, so yeah, so we raised money, and then– I have two women partners. One of my partner's husband owns our property, which is really nice. We like our landlord. We can easily manipulate him, which is awesome. [Laughs]
Lalita Khosla: And I'm sure she finds him very charming.
Annie Holman: Yeah. [Laughs] I'll refrain from answering. But anyways– So, we have a building that's 8,300 square feet. We're going out the door with five years of production, we're going to have a huge cannabis kitchen. So in that kitchen will make edibles, savory and sweet. Then we have another room that we're going to be producing topical tincture and beauty products. All of these rooms that I'm talking about, all are completely decked out with automated high-end equipment. We really don't want to be doing things by hand as a manufacturer. So yeah. So the bakery, the top of the picture, we have a chocolate room and we have a candy room. All these rooms are humidity and temperature controlled as well. We also have a cooling room. So we'll be able to take the products off the lines like, like your product, the chocolate, and instead of running it down a cooling table or push it into a row... We're also going to be able to wrap pre-rolls and pack flower, and actually, people are still asking us about vape pens. But we are interestingly enough with this vape situation, we have been getting a lot more ask on pre-rolls.
Lalita Khosla: Yeah.
Annie Holman: And then we're also going to be a distribution arm, we're not going to do distribution, a big distribution, yet; we're going to do fulfillment. Most of our clients have these existing retail relationships already, and I always tell all of my brands and clients, "Go out and sell your own products because you can do that best-"
Lalita Khosla: Yes, absolutely.
Annie Holman: "-You don't need a distro or transport license, we will take it out for you. So we're gonna do that, do fulfillment to begin with. We decided to call the kitchen The Galley because the factory that was in, in our place before was a high-end fish factory. And all of us have some type of tie to the ocean. I mean, my grandfather was a lobster fishermen, my two partners, you know, ran this fish business. And so everybody kind of has a watery fishy view. And our logo is a mermaid, and her name is Pearl, so. Because that's significant of how hard this has been, because it has not been easy; how hard pearls work to get into the world. So that's why we named her Pearl.
Lalita Khosla: Right? It's not, it's not easy being a pearl.
Annie Holman: No, it is not. And a pioneer in this emerging industry, which has, post-Prop 64, been a difficult path. So yeah, but you know, I'm proud of my team, and we, we are really– We're women, and we're flexible, we're resilient, we know how to pivot, and we really don't get our panties in a bunch about too much. Because what's the point in that? I mean, this is my second career; I'm 56 years old, and I want to be happy at work. And I've always been happy at work, so this was important that I find the right people to partner with, and be happy every day and have fun and laugh. And that's what we do. You know, I'm not saying that it's not stressful sometimes, but honestly, the kind of company that we're building, the ethos that we're bringing on board here is, you know, I understand that those attitudes come down from the top. So if I'm in a bitchy mood, that's not gonna help anybody. And I'm not really in a bitchy mood very often anyways, no, I'm really not. I'm just, it's not my personality, you know. I joke about everything, as you know.
Lalita Khosla: Yes. [Laughter] And that's what the Bad Mommy podcast is all about.
Annie Holman: Yeah, exactly.
Lalita Khosla: The Bad Mommy Experience is about how to have fun, and enjoy cannabis as part of your lifestyle.
Annie Holman: Definitely, definitely.
Lalita Khosla: Alright. Thanks for joining.
Annie Holman: Yeah, thank you for having me. This has been great.
Lalita Khosla: Okay, that's our episode for today. Thanks for listening.
You can find us at BadMommyEdibles.com, or on Instagram @BadMommyEdibles. Please consider subscribing and sharing with all of your bad mommy friends and your friends who also want to be bad mommies.
Until next time, I'm your host, Lalita Khosla: the original Bad Mommy.